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Story of a Language (sort of?) February 25-26, 2001 Tony: weblog? me: what about it? Tony: Dumb people would pronounce it as "we blog"! Tony: :-) me: no they wouldn't me: although they could me: it's the same thing Tony: yeah. me: since the verb "to blog" means to add entries to a log, or journal me: either way... new words created by technology :-) Tony: There is no word "to blog" unless you just made it up! Tony: I have to tell you, the more I read "Young Goodman Brown," the more I think he was dreaming that whole thing up. me: um, yes there is. me: "to blog" is very much a word. Tony: It is not in my dictionary or on dictionary.com. me: the word is actually pronounced "wee-blog" ... well i'll be me: so? Tony: I've never heard it before. me: so? Tony: What is your source? me: the entire internet Tony: Specifics... me: you can go nearly anywhere me: search for it for all i care me: http://www.rebeccablood.net/essays/weblog_history.html Tony: I want a website... Tony: THAT'S NOT CREDIBLE! Tony: Please! me: yes it is. me: are you telling me that words are not created by the people that use them? me: how do you think a language evolves? Tony: When it is confirmed by the National English Language Association, and appears in dictionaries, then it will be credible. Tony: Until then, no. me: http://webopedia.internet.com/TERM/b/blog.html me: it will not appear in old dictionaries, which is all that is ever in existence me: all printed dictionaries are months old, and usually years Tony: Keyword there, Paul..."jargon" Tony: "jargon" is not credible. me: you just don't understand. me: when a word is used all over the world, whether jargon or not, it is still a word. Tony: The verb "Bork" means to be treated like Robert Bork, but that is not credible. Tony: The point you are trying to make is clear... Tony: ...if everyone knows the word, it exists...right? me: that is very different me: no me: that is not the point i am trying to make Tony: ... me: you know hundreds of words that i do not know me: does that make them less credible as words? Tony: yes...to an extent. me: i don't care if you accept "blog" as a word or not. it is a word. :-) Tony: I guarantee you that if you asked somebody on the street and used the word blog as in, "yes, I blogged that yesterday," they will look at you like you're nuts! me: but when i tell them what it means, and they come to acecpt it, they will eventually pass it on to the next person me: that is how words come to be me: like deference. i would have never guessed that word existed. Tony: Did you know of the word "defer"? Tony: It is merely the noun form. me: barely. Tony: like "refer" and "reference" me: it is not a word that i use. Tony: same deal. me: so? me: like house and hice? me: oh wait.. me: relating to other words doesn't help you here... all rules like that have exceptions Tony: Wait...look Tony: Let's take the word, "nitriculate"? me: never heard of it. Tony: Do you know why you've never heard of it? me: I have an idea. me: Because I have never been provided with the correct circumstance to allow my need to hear or use the word. Tony: No...it doesn't exist! I just made it up! Tony: Now, I can go and publish this word on a website and apply some technical or chemical meaning to it... Tony: And boom, it exists! Tony: That does not make it credible... Tony: ...because the word has no roots. Tony: And, as such, the word "blog" has no roots. me: that is very different tony me: hundreds of thousands of people do not use the word nitriculate Tony: Okay. me: hundreds of thousands of people use the word "blog" Tony: Only because of the above description I gave. me: the word has several years of roots Tony: Give me one derivative of blog? me: blogged. me: blogging. me: blogger. Tony: No, no...from where does blog derive? me: Blogger is even the name of a program, taken from the word, that helps people to update their weblogs. me: web log = weblog = blog Tony: That's a little better. me: a web log became weblog. the verb to update a web log is blog. Tony: No, if I'm going to update a weblog, I am going to say that I am UPDATING A WEBLOG, not BLOGGING. Tony: (This is funny) me: not if you actually had a weblog me: that you had kept for long enough to realize that there is ACTUALLY A WORD FOR THAT Tony: The word for that has been invented! me: as has every other word in the language! Tony: NO me: YES Tony: Every credible word has a derivative. Tony: Paul. me: where do you think they came from? do you think God sat down and said, okay this is the language.. please study it. Tony: NO me: and this one was derived on the internet. me: so what? Tony: They are derived from sounds...it's called linguistics me: it's no different from the others me: it just went through the deriving process quicker me: a word was necessary, so it became. Tony: It is different. The word "blog" has no sound derivative. me: yes it does. me: for several years people have kept "web logs." Tony: It has been "derived" (invented) by internet users. me: so? me: it wasn't "invented" as you say me: it was gradually used me: err me: it gradually took its place in the language Tony: Fine. Tony: When it shows up in dictionary.com, it will pass. me: are you telling me that bread is not a word? "breaded fish." bread, in that since, derives from the food bread. the term bread was INVENTED by the person that decided he was going to call it bread. me: dictionary.com is a tool. it is not the god of words. Tony: "Bread" was not invented. Tony: The spelling was invented. Tony: But not the word. Tony: The word's derivative may be found in speech Tony: The essence of language is speech me: Um, it was too invented. me: bread was an innovation me: do you think it just grew as bread? Tony: YES Tony: That Tony: is exactly what happened Tony: Study linguistics...you'll find that out. me: this is like arguing about the necessity of war me: it's pointless. me: you are convinced that it is necessary, when really it is not. :-) Tony: Oh yeah...abou that...necessity of war. me: (heheh) Tony: I have finally formulated my argument. me: go for it. Tony: Even Claire agreed with it, to an extent. me: well your argument isn't absolutely flawed, just here and there. me: heh. Tony: Would you agree that change is necessary? me: war is necessary for some things to occur. yes. but that does not mean that war is simply necessary. Tony: Would you agree that CHANGE is necessary. me: nothing is really necessary tony. things that happen are only inevitable based upon the conditions that create the circumstances. Tony: ? me: change is not necessary. me: change is inevitable. :-) Tony: We can't even agree that change is necessary? Tony: Come on! me: :-) me: my argument is sound, i think. perhaps not convincing for someone as faithful to your convictions as I am of mine, but a sound argument, nonetheless, i think. Tony: You want everything to stay ABSOLUTELY the way things are right now? Same age, same happenings, same everything? me: at least we argue intellectually rather than violently. me: no, i do not. me: so change will occur. me: this does not mean that it is necessary. Tony: There, you just said it. me: but, given the conditions which have created the circumstances of, well, everything, change is inevitable. Tony: jpmccord: no, i do not. Tony: You don't want things to stay the same, therefore you want change...your want necessitates change. Tony: By your own admission. me: no me: want necessitates nothing me: need does. me: and that is still only a result of circumstance Tony: Perhaps need is a better choice of words. Tony: Even so... Tony: There are circumstances that necessitate change. Tony: Such as... Tony: ...your needs. me: Like I said, circumstantially, change is inevitable. me: based on the laws of being, change can be necessary in certain situations, but this is still only a result of given circumstances. me: the same goes for war me: circumstantially, it can be the only option, and therefore inevitable (and by your definition necessary) Tony: Circumstances shape everything, Paul. Everything is circumstance! Tony: We're talking the same thing through different words! me: necessity and inevitability are still different things. Tony: I conceded that already. me: oh dear sweet jesus me: dictionary.com is on your side me: necessity (n) ... definition 2.2: "the force exerted by circumstance." Tony: I thought we were talking the same thing. me: inevitability (n) ... the impossibility to avoid or prevent [something] Tony: Okay, may I continue? me: of course. Tony: War can be defined as an extension of politics through other means... Tony: ...these other means include the invasion of another country and the spreading of the conquering culture. Tony: Agreed? me: I still stand strong with my belief. Based on the definition of necessity as simply the force that something needs to occur, and the definition of inevitability as simply that something will occur, necessity and inevitability are inherently different. Tony: All right. Do we agree on the above? me: war can be defined as an extension of politics through other (?) means... me: i agree me: you worded that loosely :-) me: do you agree with the point i just made? Tony: That's right, that was meant to be worded that way. Tony: Now, similarly, love can be defined as an extension of emotion through other means. Tony: The other means being sexual reproduction and emotional attachment to another; the spreading of ones genes around the populous. Tony: Agreed that there are parallels? me: yes... Tony: Think of a woman (or a man, for that matter) as a foreign nation. Tony: (you know I think in these terms, so bear with me...) Tony: The opposite sex (or the opposite ideology)... Tony: goes into make the conquest...attaining victory through conquest... Tony: The conquering nation spreads its culture around the vanquished... Tony: The conquering sex (male or female) spreads his or her kind (genes) around the populous... Tony: Point being... Tony: We accept love as a necessity (or I would hope you do), not just as an inevitability. Tony: With the numerous parallels, one can formulate that, if love is necessary, so, then, should be war. me: I do not accept love as a necessity. :-) me: I do not accept love even as an inevitability. me: well, love in general terms is inevitable. me: love for any particular individual is not. Tony: Love is not necessary? me: depending on how you mean love, of course. Tony: I have no more to say, then. me: Love is a wonderful thing, don't get me wrong, but it is not absolutely necessary. Tony: Okay. me: If you cannot already tell, I have a firm belief (or disbelief?) about the necessity of things. me: Necessity is circumstantial. Period. me: Inevitability is absolute. Period. me: Circumstantially, I support your claim that war CAN BE necessary. me: Absolutely, I do not. Tony: Necessity is circumstantial, I agree. Tony: But things are only inevitable because of the CIRCUMSTANCES that brought about that inevitability. me: So we see eye to eye then. I will concede, then, that war can be necessary. I will also concede, then, that as a result of the circumstances that have and inevitably will rise again war will be necessary again. Tony: That's right. Tony: Because of the circumstances of this world, war will occur again, inevitably, and, indeed, necessary, because of the circumstances of the world. me: there is a very fine line between necessity and inevitability, and i will not try to draw it again... but i still stick to my convictions as i have attempted to share them with you. :-) we rule, either way. Tony: lol Tony: Yes we do! me: and in five days we will be at the beach Tony: YES! me: and in five minutes i will be writing a paper me: and in five seconds i will tell you again that blog is a word, just before closing AIM Tony: Same here. I say less. Let's bag this and write our papers. me: you know that i am keeping this conversation :-) me: blog is a word. Tony: So am I. me: good night :-) © III Enterprises & neotope.com |
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